Reason #5: The Church Represses Women

Use these materials to go deeper into this message on your own, or with your small group.
Small Group Guide

Classic Service | Modern Service | Sermon Audio

DAVE’S OPENING

Good morning Chapel family. We’re taking six weeks to talk about some of the big reasons that people are done with church. And today we come to the fifth reason, and it’s this: the belief that the church represses women. To “repress” someone means to hold them back, or hold them down.

Modern Western culture has made incredible strides in recognizing and valuing women. We have a female Vice President, for the first time in history. Women serve as prime ministers and presidents of powerful countries; women serve as CEOs of major corporations; women scientists are often at the forefront of scientific breakthroughs. Really incredible progress! This is very close to home for me, because I’m married to a strong and gifted woman. And I’m so glad she’s been able to use her gifts and her mind to become a CPA and a controller of a company. That probably wouldn’t have happened 40 years ago, and it definitely wouldn’t have happened 60 years ago, so I’m grateful for the progress that we’ve made. For the sake of my 22-year-old daughter, I’m grateful for the progress that we’ve made.

And that leads me to the critique. Because a lot of people look at all the doors that are open for women in our culture, and then they look at the church, and they see certain doors that are only open to men. And that bothers them. And for some people—both men and women—this is a big reason that they’re done with church. So this is really important, and we need to talk about it.

Once again, I’m so glad I’m not talking about this alone. In a few moments I’ll be introducing my colleague Heather Horn, and I’ve asked Heather to share her perspective on all of this. But first, let’s look at today’s Scripture reading: Romans 16, verses 1-7. I invite you to hear the Word of God…

1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. 2 I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.

3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus. 4 They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.

5 Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

6 Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you.

7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. This is the Word of the Lord.

That reading is from the final chapter of Paul’s letter to the Romans. In the ancient world, it was common to include personal greetings at the end of a letter. So in this last chapter of Romans, Paul gives this long list of people (and we just looked at the beginning of the list—it’s actually much longer), but people that he wants to acknowledge and thank for the role they were playing in the church. And here’s the point: the list is filled with women. Of the 29 people listed, ten of them are women. Deacons, teachers, church planters, etc. Why do I bring this up? Well, I think it provides some really important context for what we’re going to be talking about today. Most of the

controversial passages on women in the church were written by the Apostle Paul. And some people think Paul was misogynistic—that he didn’t value women, and didn’t allow them to serve. But this list gives us a window into what was actually happening in the first century church. At a very patriarchal time in human history, women had a lot of influence in the church. And Paul wasn’t just vaguely aware of that: he knew many of them by name; he knew how they were contributing; and he was clearly happy about it. So let’s keep that in mind as we go through this message.

Now: one of the reasons this is such an emotionally-charged issue is that, over the years, women have been mistreated by churches and church people, in many different ways. I’d like to acknowledge a few of those ways. Sometimes, the way that church leaders speak about women is disrespectful and condescending—maybe not blatantly, but their opinions and ideas aren’t taken as seriously as those of men. Sometimes, women have been subjected to crass sexual humor, and treated as sexual objects, and Christian leaders have winked at it, or looked the other way. Thankfully, the #MeToo movement has brought some of that to light, but it still goes on. Just last spring, there was a very high profile Christian speaker and author who passed away. Shortly after his death, multiple women came forward and said he had behaved in highly inappropriate sexual ways toward them, and the allegations were so alarming that this man’s ministry organization conducted an investigation; a few weeks ago they confirmed the allegations were true. And I’m thankful for the integrity of the organization for looking into it, but I’m so disturbed that it happened, and I’m troubled by the fact that the women only felt safe to come forward after this man had died. What is that? Something is really wrong with that picture.

Let me mention one more thing, and this is about domestic abuse. This is a huge topic, so I’m not going to do it any kind of justice. At times, the church has so warped the Bible’s teaching that men have taken it as permission to abuse their wives: physically, emotionally, sexually. And it gets worse, because many times, when that abuse is brought to the attention of church leaders, it’s not taken seriously enough. It’s all too common, and it’s horrendous. So if you’re a woman who’s been the recipient of abuse from a husband or a boyfriend, or if it’s happening right now, you need to know that God hates it, and the abuser will have to answer to God, and it will not be pretty. So please get help. It’s not okay, and it needs to stop. And if the church has failed you, I am so, so sorry.

We need to be really honest about our shortcomings, and we need to acknowledge that some of the critiques are valid. Otherwise, we never learn and we never get better.

So, if the church has sometimes warped the Bible’s teaching, what does the Bible teach about women and men in the church? Let me lay out a few basic things, and then I’m going to invite Heather up. All the way back in the creation narrative, we read this—Genesis 1:27-28:

27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” Men and women were created in the image of God, and they were both given a key role in God’s plan. So right from the start, there’s a lot of equality.

Then in the New Testament, we read this—Galatians 3:26-28…26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. So specifically in the church, as believers in Jesus

Christ, there is no hierarchy of value or status between men and women, according to the inspired words of the Apostle Paul.

But here’s where it gets tricky: that same Paul also wrote this—1 Timothy 2:11-14…11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. Now it gets a little controversial. If you don’t have a high view of Scripture, you will just dismiss this and say Paul didn’t know what he was talking about. But if you believe, like we do, that all Scripture is inspired by God, then you have to grapple with this. You have to do the hard work of studying the context, and interpreting, and ultimately, deciding how to apply it in 2021, in our church. And let me tell you: that’s not easy.

So there are a couple of things that we know this can’t mean. It can’t mean that men and women have a different value or status in the eyes of God. Because we just saw clearly in creation, and in the church, everyone has equal status. And it can’t mean that Paul was expecting women to literally be silent in church, because there are other places where he encourages women to be vocal participants in the gathered worship of the church. Now: some people have said, “Look, there must have been some problem going on in the church at Ephesus (which is where Timothy was the pastor), and Paul was just making this policy for that particular church. So this doesn’t apply to us; it just applied to them.” Which is possible! But here’s why I don’t think it’s the best interpretation: in his explanation, Paul doesn’t point to a specific problem in that church. Instead, do you see what he does? He goes back to the order of creation: Adam was formed first, then Eve. So by rooting this in what happened in creation, he seems to be laying out a timeless principle.

So I’m really condensing a lot here, because I want to give Heather time. But when we put this passage together with other key New Testament passages, here’s how we understand this at The Chapel: we believe God invites both men and women to serve in any way within the church, with two exceptions. So when I say “serve in any way within the church,” that includes leading entire ministry departments—for example, Jamie Longo is our Director of Care; Susan Breitz is the Director of Discipleship; Ingrid Flannery is the Director of Special Needs Inclusion; Jasmine Knaus is the Director of the Chapel Preschool; and Heather Horn is the Director of Family Ministries. It includes leading small groups of any age and gender. It includes overseeing major projects—for example, the Chapel Christmas Village, which was massive; was led by Julie Everett, and she did an amazing job.

So we believe God invites men and women to serve in any way within the church, with two exceptions: the role of pastor/elder, and the role of delivering the main, authoritative teaching of Scripture during worship services—we believe the New Testament reserves those two roles for qualified men. That is our understanding of what the Bible teaches, and that’s how we’ve structured The Chapel. And we are so grateful for the men that God has provided at The Chapel because they are humble, servant-leaders, and they take their role really seriously. Now: if you think we hold that position flippantly or smugly, you’re just wrong. Because we have such a high regard for the women in the Chapel family, and the last thing we want to do is hold anybody back. So we continue to wrestle with this and keep an open mind toward it, because it’s that important.

Okay…enough from me. I am really privileged to work alongside Heather Horn. She is our Director of Family Ministries, which includes Chapel Students and Chapel Kids and bunch of other things. She’s a very committed leader and great thinker. So would you welcome Heather Horn…

HEATHER’S PART

Thank you Dave. Good Morning Chapel Family. I appreciate this opportunity to share my perspective as this has been a topic I have pondered and struggled with my entire adult life.

I was sitting in my office and a man asked to meet with me. I was about 27 or 28 years old, he was older than me but not by much. I was excited as a young woman in a new ministry position that this man wanted to meet with me in my office. Maybe get my advice, share an idea with me? He began, “Now that you are a woman in full time ministry you need to be more careful about what you wear.” No he did not want my advice or to share an idea, he wanted to correct me on the dress I wore on stage that previous Sunday to give announcements. You must realize I went to high school and college in the 90’s when you knew your men’s cargo pant size and extra-large flannel shirts were all the rage. But here I sat feeling small, feeling ashamed. What dress did I wear? Was it inappropriate? In that moment I returned to about 10 years earlier as an 18-year-old girl sitting in my male youth leader’s car realizing that the man I had come to trust, the married man with kids, that I had come to trust was making advances at me and I had no way out. Alone. No one to help. No one to speak for me. There was nothing I could do. That day in the car I asked the same questions that I would now ask in my office…What did I do wrong? Who will come to save me? Who would believe me if I told them? How can I get out of this situation and fast? Now as the 27-year-old in my office, I couldn’t tell you what else was said after his comment or if I even spoke another word. I was probably polite and thanked him but I just wanted him out. What 10 years of experience had taught me…tell someone. The moment he left I immediately called my husband Josh, and well cried because God gave women, at least this woman, the gift of sensitivity and emotion. Josh asked who the man was because he would find him and “take care of him.” I then went to speak to a trusted male staff member and told him what happened. He was wonderfully and appropriately comforting. He told me that I had done nothing wrong and that the conversation was more about that man’s issues than my own. He also was wise enough to see that my reaction was more about the helpless place that experience took me to than the current situation.

Pastor Dave is correct the Church has made mistakes in this area, Christians have made mistakes. Sometimes mistakes straight from our sin nature and sometimes mistakes made incorrectly believing they were justified under scripture. Like a man using his authority and place of leadership to silence a woman enduring harassment. Or that women need to submit to all men even if that means dismissing inappropriate behavior. That a wife submitting to her husband includes abuse. That somehow in these situations it’s the woman’s fault for being too provocative or distracting. We have let many women down allowing them to believe they are less than, that they are objects, they are not worthy of protection and true cherishing. None of this is what God wants for his people.

Regarding that interaction in my office; my husband did go to talk to that man, just talked, and I am happy to say that man saw that he was wrong, that it wasn’t his place to speak to me, and he apologized to both me and Josh. But that experience would leave me asking will I ever be taken seriously? Will I ever be seen as having authority? Will I ever be respected in my position?

This certainly wasn’t the only negative experience I had as a woman in ministry but I am grateful to say there are a lot more positive ones than negative. Like the youth pastor who saw leadership qualities in me at a young age and gave me responsibilities in youth group, or my parents who never once told me I couldn’t do something because I was a woman and encouraged me to go to a Christian college to pursue full time ministry. The college professor who offered me leadership

opportunities and recommended me for job positions even when I didn’t believe in myself. Or the wonderful strong woman I interned under in college who was the first example to me of a strong woman in full time ministry. And I have had wonderful experiences here at the Chapel where from the start they saw potential in me and more recently when Pastor Ted said, “I have an idea” and from there the family ministry team was born.

How can some women have such terrible experiences in the church while others have wonderful experiences? Why don’t all Christians see women through the eyes of our Creator and our loving Savior?

Which brings me to the two areas I want to look at, Where have we gotten it wrong? And How can we get it Right?

1. Where have we gotten it wrong?

As Dave explained there are scriptures that set an order in leadership and lay out what women are not permitted to do. I have and continue to wrestle with passages like 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14 but at the end of the day this is the Chapel’s position and I support it. Unfortunately, in living out these guidelines, the church has made some mistakes.

In preparation for today, I reached out to some fellow women in ministry, to hear some of their experiences. One ministry leader said in regards to interpretation of scripture, “I have seen how the misuse of scripture and the unbiblical application of scripture has contributed to many dysfunctional marriages and the way some women view themselves.”

And another as she reflected on her supervisor’s response to her on current events and its effect on the Church, “He was blown away that I actually had vision and a heart for all it. He sat with his mouth open and he couldn’t believe I would have what he called a pastor’s heart. I have been there for more than 4 years and this was the first time I was even asked about my insight on something other than a kid’s min event.”

We have hurt many women in the church and we have not represented the body of Christ to the world. 50% of our congregation could be going unnoticed and under-utilized.

Kathy Keller, wife of Tim Keller and author of “Jesus, Justice and Gender Roles” says it best, “The shameful fact is that in many churches the Scriptures have been interpreted so as to prevent women from exercising many, if not most, of the gifts of leadership and teaching, exhortation, encouragement, and so on, that the Holy Spirit has given to them. Not only does this disenfranchise half the church; it amputates the body of Christ.”

At one point in my life it seemed to me that I was expected to only do certain roles in ministry, to act a certain way, dress a certain way, talk less or at least quieter and to be more careful in sharing my opinion. Why would God make me this way and not allow me to use my gifts? Why would he make it such a struggle? Why would I feel he called me to ministry if he didn’t even want me there? But one day I was driving to work and I was listening to a podcast with Nancy Beach who is a female pastor and author of “Gifted to Lead”. She was sharing about her calling. And then she said something that felt like she was talking right to me. She simply said, “God didn’t mess up when he made you.” To me it was like she was saying, He did not mess up when he gave you the gifts he gave you. He did not mess up when he gave you the personality he gave you. He made you the way he made you and he expects you to use it all for His Glory.

I want you to hear this, I had a lot of people who encouraged me but we all know the devil loves to take that one thing, that insecurity and pick away at it until you no longer use your gifts for God’s

glory, until you no longer believe his truths…the truths that you are fearfully and wonderfully made, that he knit you together in your mother’s womb, that he loves YOU and came for you. And that’s where the real problem is. We have wonderfully gifted and talented women who are standing on the sidelines, waiting for someone to notice their gifting and give them a chance. Young women who are waiting for someone to see them and save them from the situation they are in. Married women who are trapped in abuse. Women unable to have children who have been made to feel less of a woman because of it. Single women who go unnoticed because there is no man to make them whole? Yes, I support the Chapel’s position of reserving the role of pastor and elder for men and think it’s based on an honest interpretation of Scripture. But I also believe we have done a disservice to many women and that is a major loss for the church.

Which brings me to my second point:

2. How can we get it right?

Many churches do and will continue to see this issue differently but we need to figure it out for THIS church. We may never agree on this issue in its entirety BUT we can agree that God used and intends to continue using women in His story. So can we come together as a body of Christ and continue to serve him in the grey? This is what I like to call it, serving him in the grey-the areas that are not black and white, when I don’t completely understand God’s word, His plan, or what he is asking of me but can I still serve Him in the grey?

Kathy Keller says it this way, “The justice behind God’s creation of male and female and his arrangement of the different roles he chose for them may not always be apparent to us. Why one and not the other? But should we expect our finitude (our limited minds) to understand the infinite, omnipotent, wise, good, lovely, gracious justice of God?“ Should we expect our human minds to grasp God’s ways? Does my stomach still turn when I read some of this scripture that I don’t understand or doesn’t make sense to me? Yes! But we can’t get distracted from what God has asked us to do.

We need to start empowering our women not because the culture says we should but because God did. When God made Adam and Eve he blessed them both, he gave them both dominion over the animals. I love this quote from Mary Willson, Director of Women in Ministry at 2nd Presbyterian Church in Memphis, “God creates Eve as Adam’s helper. That is a gift…a noble designation. It’s a role of strength and privilege. In the Old Testament, God calls himself Israel’s helper.” Eve being Adam’s helper was a blessing. I look at the strong women of the Bible and I KNOW God intended to use women in his story just as much as men. The powerful prophetess Deborah in Judges 4 who led her nation in war. And in that same war, the woman Jael who brought about Israel’s victory with her bare hands. Women like Esther, Ruth, even Rahab…all used by God.

We also need to start empowering our women because Jesus did. Jesus honored women and respected women which did not align with the culture of his time. But he saw them anyway. Like sisters Mary and Martha, the woman at well, women who needed to be healed, women who then followed Jesus with His disciples like Mary Magdelene, Joanna and Susanna.

And then there’s Paul the writer of many books of the Bible. I have always struggled with him and have joked that when I get to heaven, after I talk to Jesus, I am talking to Him because his writings are the reason we are even having this conversation. I am referring to the very passages Dave and I have referenced today, 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14, not to mention some others.

But in Romans 16:1-16, Dave pointed out, Paul honors women, shows their worth and his respect for them. Listing Phoebe, a servant of the church, Priscilla who taught Apollos, he calls Tryphena,

Tryphosa, and Persis hard workers of the church, and his friend Rufus’ mom, who he says was like a mom to him. I find it encouraging when we focus on the beauty of the body of Christ, on how the church can work together and when we see how the scriptures honor and cherish women.

I want to take a minute to address men and women separately.

Men, I want to tell you another story. Here at the Chapel not that long ago I was asked to come speak to the board of elders and give my perspective on this same topic. You could say it was the beginning of this conversation today. Honestly, I was so nervous and overcome by emotion I couldn’t speak. Those stinking emotions the Lord blessed me with were having their way with me. The lump in my throat would not budge. The men were gracious and saved me from the awkward moment but I was so mad at myself. Here we were, they were ready to listen and want to hear from me and I couldn’t get a word out…or at least a word that makes sense. After a few men spoke, the lump went away, my strength returned. I asked them if I could now speak. One thing I said that night I will say to you now, “Imagine you are who you are, having all the same giftedness and drive, having the same personality…all the qualities that made someone say, he would make a great Elder… but then you were told you can’t do it simply because you are a woman.” And then I said, “Some of you have daughters, imagine your daughter tells you she wants to serve the Lord by becoming a Pastor and you have to look her in the eyes and say sorry honey you just can’t.” The elders and male staff took a moment and reflected on that and I believe they could put themselves in positioin. It was no longer a rule to uphold but something personal. The compassion and empathy I felt that night is what I want for all women who have felt slighted or set aside by the church. Another local ministry leader I interviewed said it like this, “If we don’t start to do small things, use certain verbiage, esteem the women in leadership publicly and in small ways we will never move forward. I think we put each other in boxes and limit the abilities and talents God gave us all. I think we get a more well-rounded full picture of who God is when we invite both male and females to the table to do ministry together. “We need to listen to each other, continue the conversation and create space for all voices.

And now women: Don’t let anything stand in your way of what God is asking of you. If God is calling you to something, that is the most important voice. Continue to submit yourself to God and…Stay humble. We have seen Christian leader after leader fall for lack of humility, so stay humble. Please embrace your femaleness. Not what society assigns as feminine but what God gave you as a female. For me that’s embracing the emotion that comes with my feelings and opinions no matter how inconvenient. Embrace that God made us women with unique giftedness and abilities that no man could ever bring to the table. When I look at my 2 daughters and think about what God has for them someday I think of our family slogan, Created on Purpose, for a purpose. As I send them off to school, to dance rehearsal or basketball practice, I say, Created on purpose and they respond, often with eyes rolling, for a purpose. There may be scripture they don’t understand, or that makes them cringe even, but I will tell them to shift perspective from what they can’t do to all God has in store for them, their purpose. We all will have internal struggles with God’s Word because this is so personal but that is part of our growth in our walk with Christ. But one thing this journey has taught me, I know for sure women are important to God, they are important to Jesus and they are important at the Chapel. I can say for certain that at the Chapel, we want to hear from you and we want women involved. The Chapel has made huge progress in recent years of including women in all conversations, leveling the playing field for staff positions and esteeming and honoring all women. Women at the Chapel will be seen, their gifts will be realized and used for the kingdom of God.

Men and women, God is asking us to work together, to help each other, to minister together, to be the body of Christ, and to reflect Christ in how we interact with each other, male and female.

Thank you.

DAVE’S CONCLUSION

I want to personally thank Heather, not just for collaborating on this message, but for being an ongoing part of this conversation. If you’d like to do some reading on this subject, Heather and I collaborated on a reading list, so you can find that on the Chapel website—just search for this sermon and you’ll find that reading list in the sermon resources.

And let me mention one more step that we’ve recently taken. The Chapel’s Board of Elders just made a decision to invite two additional people to our monthly Board meetings. They’re called “Board Advisors,” and they are godly and wise women from the Chapel family. So any time the Board is making a tough decision or voting on something, they will have the benefit of hearing the wisdom and perspective of those female Board Advisors. I think it’s a really smart move, and I think it’s going to make us better.

So…I realize this is a highly emotional issue. I realize some of you do not agree with the how The Chapel approaches it. But I hope you’ll see that we take it very seriously, and we do our best to allow Scripture to guide us, and there’s an atmosphere of high respect among the men and women in our leadership. As leaders of this church, we will stand before God one day, and answer for how we’ve led his church. So please pray for us—that we’ll lead wisely and well.